At this point in the year, it feels like The Alchemist practically lives at Billboard.

The producer’s immaculate 25-year-run was profiled back in August, and he came by the offices again in September to talk Alfredo 2 with Freddie Gibbs. Before the year is out, The Alchemist will have worked with Larry June and 2 Chainz, Yaasin Bey, Mobb Deep, Boldy James, Armand Hammer and of course Erykah Badu. But for now, it’s Goldfish season. The collaborative tape with Hit-Boy, which arrives on October 24, marks the producer pair’s first joint album together.

As for Hit-Boy, the Grammy-award winning producer is also having a banner year. Speaking with us alongside Alc about his upcoming solo album Software Update, that album will mark his first independent solo effort after leaving a tumultuous deal with Def Jam. Not to mention, he also has an album in the works with the popular streamer N3on, among other things with Alc — including a full length Goldfish film starring Simon Rex, Danny Trejo and others.

The point is, as two of the most revered producers in hip-hop, the jaw-dropping year they’ve had cannot be understated. Below, Hit-Boy speaks extensively about his upcoming solo album Software Update, and how he’s navigated independence post-Def Jam. Then, him and The Alchemist talk about their joint album Goldfish, and how they’re thinking about their legacy as two of the most celebrated producers in rap.

The first thing that really stuck out to me was just the term Software Update. Why was now the time for a Hit-Boy update? How did that term kind of come to define this point of your career?

Hit-Boy: Man, it’s just been years of me trying to figure it out. Investing in myself, trying out different creatives and switching my sound up and I just got to this point in life where it’s like I had to step back and be like, “Yo, I got to dial in on who I really want to present myself as.” And it’s like I had to just start digging deep. I had to, I was forced to. I had my dad get out of prison in 2023. We just hit the ground running. It was all an investment just like video after video, traveling, you know, we was pipin’ up. We was doing our s—t.

Then he gets locked back up. And it kind of just took me back to that place of when I was a kid, just feeling that absence again. This time it was even worse ‘cuz we actually had motion. Like, he was really making money. It was a lot going on, and that was kind of the final straw for me to be like, “Yo, I got to fall back on everything and everybody, and just really invest in myself on the level I need to.”

I’m really sorry to hear about your dad. I’m curious if you could just give me a little more detail on what about that moment in particular caused you to have the reaction of, “Okay, I really need to fall back.”

Hit: I’ve invested in plenty of artists over my career, and just try to hold hands and bring people up. That stuff always kind of backfired — and for it to kind of backfire with my own dad, it was like, “Hold up, man. I got to really be the artist I need to be.” And it’s like — I haven’t been able to be that, because when I’m working with other artists, it’s deeper than the surface. Artists are crazy people in the first place, but then you’ll put somebody in position, give them a better situation than they had. They’ll be making money and they’ll still be looking at you like, “Oh, you haven’t done nothing for me!”

So to get to that point where it’s like… I did so much, you know? To where it’s like, I have no choice. I was just left no choice, man. To just put everything into me musically, financially, marketing wise. Everything I’m doing is just about pushing my brand to that level versus trying to be like, “Oh, well, I feel like I’m indebted to this person or I need to help this person.” This is about me right now, for the first time in my career, for real.

I imagine that also left quite an impact on your relationship just as father and son too.

Hit: Yeah, heavy. Definitely, it affected us…Man, I just heard last night that he might be getting out of prison in like the next week. We’ll see, that’s when the real work starts. I told him, holler at me when he get out, because I’ve exhausted myself. I gave him all the resources, money, lawyers, all this s—t. And you went against everything I said! He actually just sent me a message saying he has people in his ear saying I’m using him? Bro, I never made one f—kin’ dollar off my dad. I actually lost a lot of money, you know what I mean? We got our story out there, I still run into people everywhere that are like, “Yo, bro tell your dad dadada.” We f—k with the story, you know? It’s love, it did what it did. But I was just like, “I can’t help you right now, man.”

When he gets out would you be open to working with him again from a musical stand point?

Hit: It’s gonna be different, bro. We gotta work through some real life s—t.

At least he still got to be in the Goldfish movie!

The Alchemist: He killed the movie.

Hit: Yeah for sure, but he gotta get his muthaf—kin’ mind together.

I feel you. On the opening track of Software Update you say, “If you ain’t go through the pain, it’s going to be harder to gain. It’s kind of hard to explain.” I was gonna ask about the trials and tribulations you faced during this point of your career, but I’m curious what type of growth you’re also referring to in that bar. When did you start to realize things were taking a turn for the positive?

Hit: Man, this is all in real time. So, I really would say just like last couple months is when I really like snap back into it. This is all literally in real time. Basically I’ve been putting myself back in that chamber. Going back to: “What would the 18-year-old Hit-Boy be doing?” Just locked in, by myself, doing what I do. And that’s what I did. And that s—t just just opened my world. I moved to a new studio. I got so much more space now and I got more things I can utilize within my operation. It’s just opened up my eyes to everything I did up to now. It was literally just the beginning, you know what I mean? That was me turning the game on. Now it’s really time to play.

On “Never Trade My Soul,” you touch on your history in the music industry. You’ve had the major label experience and now you know what it’s like to run an independent organization. What are some of the most important lessons that you’ve learned at this point in your career after navigating all these highs and lows simultaneously?

Hit: Man, really just to stay level-headed. I always hear like from plenty of people like, “Man, you too humble.” But I know it’s ups and downs. So I just kind of just stay stoic and I just stay who I am cuz I know how this s—t can be. I’ve been up and I’ve been down before. So, I really, you know, I got no ego about this s—t. But I am motivated and super confident in what I’m doing. I know for a fact just on a personal level, my growth is exponential. So, I’m just excited to present this s—t to the world and keep growing with it. I understand that’s what it’s about, man. Pace yourself and give yourself the grace to become who you really want to be. Study and just really implement the information that you take in.

Another one of those bars that stuck out to me was when you said you should be on Andrew Callaghan’s Channel 5 on “Don’t Sleep on the Bounce.”

Hit: Cuz that’s how bizarre I feel like my life has been! It’s just a lot of s—t man. I deal with a lot, so that’s why I said, “I ain’t doing trank, I ain’t never pedal weight.” They usually interview like wild s—t, drug dealers, pimps, and people that’s hurt doing drugs and s—t. I’m not saying I’m on that, but I do live a wild life and I have some wild experiences. So I should be on Channel 5!

What’re your thoughts on Channel 5 and the work Andrew is doing?

Hit: I just like how deep he investigates, you know what I mean? Like he’ll go to the muthaf—kin’ block where they doing the drugs, then he’ll find the dudes that sell the drugs. He goes deep into the journalism side. So I just f—k with that.

Coming off of what Kendrick did last year, and now what Ray Vaughn and other West Coast artists are doing in regards to dissing Joey Bada$$ and other East Coast rappers — how do you feel about the state of West Coast rap in 2025?

Hit: I mean, bro, s—t, to me? Kendrick got us on top. He’s smashing s—t. You know what I mean? So we got to feed off that and we got to keep adding to the pot and compliment what’s going on.

What about the role of beef in hip-hop right now?

Hit: I mean [beef] is part of it. It’s just like, as long as it don’t get like to the point where muthaf—kas want to kill each other, like it’s cool. That’s a big part of rap. You got whole rap battle leagues, so that’s a real thing. It’s just like, that s–t ain’t never going nowhere. muthaf—kas is always going to have egos. Like, that’s really what it boiled down to. It’s egos.

When did you first connect with the Alchemist, and why do you think he’s one of the great producers that stands above the pack?

Hit: Man, longevity. That’s the first thing as far as why he stands out, and just consistency. We tapped in years ago. He actually hit me up when Prodigy got out of jail. That must have been 2010, 2009 type s—t. I sent him some beats for Prodigy. It’s crazy cuz one of those beats that was in that email I sent ended up being the “1 Train” beat that was on A$AP Rocky’s first album. That’s how we first connected — then we tapped in later on when we made that song, “Slipping Into Darkness.” That was a little moment and that was when I was kind of involved in some producer beef, and s—t that I wasn’t really intending it to be, but I knew it would be something. It was more a nod to the Kendrick s—t. I was just stomping down to let muthaf—kas know I’m right here too type s—t.

I remember that moment with “Slipping Into Darkness.” Where do things stand in regards to your relationship with Mustard?

Hit: That wasn’t no real beef at all. I ran into Mustard and we had a talk and it’s all good. I seen him recently at the Sofar show and it’s all love.

What are you feeling about the producers role in 2025?

Hit: Man, it’s an interesting time for me, because I just feel like it’s nothing that’s like super custom or just standing out. There’s some dope stuff out there, but I feel like there’s not that guy! Who’s that Pharrell, that Timbaland, that Dre, type s—t? But, it is a good time for somebody to break through and come with a fresh sound and tear people’s heads off man!

What do you attribute that to? Are we just in a creative lull or is there something bigger at play?

Hit: I really can’t call it, man. It’s a lot of things, it’s where we at as a culture. Certain artists are not caring as much about the music. They going to just get a lot like the same beat over and over essentially and just say the same thing over and over on the same beat, you know? Who’s really pushing it type s—t? I don’t know. It’s just space for for greatness right now. And that’s the thing I’m leaning on.

What does the future of Hit-Boy look like once Software Update drops?

Hit: Keep updating, bro. Getting better. It’s crazy because I got that album done, masters turned in, but I just moved into my new studio and I just made a whole new album. So, I’m dropping another album right after. I’m about to just keep the pressure up. It’s been like being at the gym, man. I’m putting up so many shots and I’m hitting. So I’m feeling super-motivated, bro, to just stay consistent… I was in a deal for 18 years with Universal Music Publishing Group and basically I just got out that deal on July 1st. So, it’s like the first day of the rest of my life type s—t, and a lot of that energy is in this next album. It’s just me celebrating being a free man and just this next chapter of my life.

Can you talk about that deal a little bit more because I know you mentioned that was an incredibly difficult period for you?

Hit: Well, bro, I didn’t realize I was in a bad deal until 2011 when I made my first real hit song! I had made songs before for other people that had buzz and was doing this thing, but not nothing like “N—as in Paris” level. So I signed my deal ’07, “N—as in Paris” comes out 2011. So I’m thinking like, “Oh, it’s my payday. It’s time to go get this money.”

I go to Universal. And they like, “Oh, well your contract says this, so we don’t have to give you no type of advance. We don’t have to advance you through the deal,” dadada. You just gotta earn out royalties. So I was able to eat but not really set myself up for true financial freedom and just like wealth essentially. So basically, it was just a fight, from 2011 until eight days ago.

Damn.

Hit: It was me hiring different managers, big-time managers, big-time lawyers, and everybody like, man, they stuck on this deal. It’s ancient. And there was stuff in there where it’s like, “My stuff has to come out on a CD.” They stopped making CDs after a while, but they still held me to that, you know what I mean? And there was other legal jargon in there where it just held me back to where I couldn’t advance through my deal.

So I got to this point where I was like, “I’m going to be stuck in this s—t for the rest of my life!” And basically I was with Roc Nation and Jay-Z, and Desiree Perez stepped in, and was able to give me an end date. This was 2021. I wanted to be out of the deal then, ’cause it had been 14 years at that point and I was over it. But they was like, “You’re going to have to do four more years.” And I knocked it down. s—t. Four years. I’m good now. I’m out!

That’s unbelievably stressful. How did you stay creatively focused while that was going on in the background?

Hit: It was hard, bro. It was hard. Mental toughness. I wanted to quit plenty of times, I wanted to. I just was feeling defeated, feeling like damn, I put all this energy and effort and traveling to places, working with all these people, building, and still can’t get my just due. I definitely felt just deprived of my freedom, and the type of wealth I should have been having at the time. But basically, man, all that s—t just happened to lead me to this point. I feel like on a deeper level, spiritually, God didn’t even let me make all the my biggest records yet because I was in that deal. Now that I’m out, I feel like my music has grown so much and I’m so much better.

Does that kind of experience taint the memory of some of these big records you have? I’m thinking specifically of “Paris.”

Hit: Nah, not at all man. That s—t was all part of the story. I still feel the same way about everything. And you know, it’s a new day, so I’m able to work certain things out. And I was able to eat well off of that song in the long run. It’s all a part of the story and it made me who I am. I wouldn’t change it.

Alright, moving on to Goldfish. Al, I’m curious who inspired you to get back into rapping? You’ve been taking it incredibly seriously these last few years.

The Alchemist: Larry [June]. I was writing, I had stuff with Gangrene and my brother Oh No, and every now and then I’d do verses here and there, but it was Larry who got me back on it. He was just a younger-generation guy and he wasn’t probably tapped in from the “Hold You Down” era. He was like, “It would be a stunt if I could get you to rap on something!” We did it, and it turned into something that [Hit-Boy] saw and was like, “Yo, you’re going crazy. I got an idea, you rap on my beat, I rap on yours.” That’s how we did “Slipping Into Darkness.”

Did you two intentionally set out to make a lyrically heavy project? What was the juggling act like of making beats that you were then rapping on?

Hit: Seeing the reaction to people who were f—kin’ with the joints, we were like, “We might have to do a whole joint project,” and it just came together organically.

Alc: I feel like we could have done an album that maybe when people hear it, if they didn’t pay attention to “Slipping Into Darkness” or the records we did last year they might be like, “Oh, Hit-Boy album? Oh compilation album? They got a good rolodex of artists, they could just go get there friends!” Like, we coulda did that, but I feel like it would have been kinda boring and not as personal. We really couldn’t give everybody us. Those records are always hard, like even when you’re doing the videos, we gotta stand behind the rappers, like, “This is our song! Hey!” We stayed clear of that, because this record is clearly ours. We stamped it from the rhymes to the beats, and what’s that worth? We’re gonna find out. But at the end of the day, we gotta be us. We weren’t thinking about a demographic when we made the record.

Did you two butt heads at all while you were making Goldfish? I ask just because these are very personal songs.

Hit: Nah, hell no. It’s just organic, we both are kinda laid back, chill muthaf—kas. We ain’t really got too much ego about this s—t. We’re just tryna get the best product. I was out here about two weeks ago. My engineer flew back so he could finalize the album, like the mixes and s—t, and when I got back and I heard myself, the way I was sounding, it all sounded like this s—t was coming off of vinyl. I wasn’t even a part of that process, but I still learned from it, like, “Oh d–n, okay, shave some s—t off here.”

Alc: And it’s just trust too. I’ve done collaborative things in the past and I know what it’s like. He’s got as many “get out of jail free cards” to do whatever he wants if he feel like it. At any moment he could go, and even if I don’t wanna go but I can tell he’s with it, I’m like, “I’m with you, let’s go.” When you do a project with somebody you’ve gotta compromise, where you know you can trust the other person. You check that part of your ego when you do a project like this. You’re putting two different elements together so you can have a new thing.

“Ricky” is definitely the most personal song you guys have ever made. What role did Boyz n the Hood play in putting it together?

Hit: I just watched that s—t all the time, I studied it. I love the shots of that s—t, the way it’s shot on film. What’s crazy is how [Alchemist] flipped that song. When I first sent it, he was like, “I don’t even know how I could see myself getting on this s—t. Then just out of nowhere, you just sent it to me. I don’t even think I had an open verse on there. I was sending it to him as the peak, type s—t.

Alc: Yeah, I loved it. The record was crazy, but it goes to songwriting. I was just trying to get into the songwriting bag with that perspective, and that nothing is what you think it is. [“Ricky”] is just two completely different experiences, but I found an angle based on my experience where I could write and make a good record from a songwriter perspective. Because you can rap about anything, but it felt like when he sent me that I had to figure it out.

Tell me about the Goldfish film? What was it like working on a film set and why did it feel like this album needed a movie?

Alc: We just kinda went step by step and pieced it together not knowing where it was going, to the point where, I’m not sure how, but we got cats that were notable. At first it seemed unreachable, like, a movie? We do music, you know what I mean? But this is a real film, it don’t feel like it’s a promotional item. We threw the dice and hit the lick, I think. It was a very good gamble. At first I showed up on set and I couldn’t believe it. It was a real film and it tripped me out. I learned a lot, both of us, on just the art of film. I have a new respect for filmmaking.

Hit: I was really just inspired by the director, for real. I seen a video he did for this artist and he had this eight foot animatronic he built just for the video, and the s—t looked so lifelike. I just had my imagination running. Like we were producing this s—t, he brought in actors, I brought my pops in, he wrote some lines and s—t. They put us in f—kin’ prosthetics and wigs and mustaches and things. We had to pay for like a $60,000 animatronic dog, you know what I mean? We paid for that s—t out of pocket.

Wait, that’s not a real dog in the movie?

Alc: Maybe it is, I don’t know! You gotta see it to find out.

Alc, you’ve had an unbelievable 2025, and you’ve been outside more than I’ve ever seen you. What happened this year, man?

Alc: I don’t know, I’m just here. I didn’t plan it, I wish I could say I had just had a big plan to go crazy, but the stars line up sometimes. I’ve always worked at the same rate, it’s not like I started speeding this year.

Really man, it’s alignment. It’s all these different people, I’m tied in with the greatest people. Erykah Badu, Mobb Deep, 2 Chainz and Larry June, Freddie Gibbs, I mean, these are people that are all some of my favorites and some of the best! Imagine me planning that out, it would be impossible. Sometimes when you have your head down and you’re just running through the offensive line, you just keep running and you look up and you’re in the end zone. I’m thankful for it, I don’t know what the hell I’m gonna do next year.

You may be prime to win a Grammy this year. Have you thought about that? Also, Hit, would it hit different for you if you won a Grammy from an artist’s perspective rather than a producer’s?

Alc: That would be dope, that would be amazing. Honestly, a Grammy nomination is amazing. I never thought in that term or that broadly, like, “Yo, we’re gonna make music to make Grammys!” In fact, that’s just a testament to the music and what we’ve been doing. It’s a blessing, and if that happens that would be great. It’s cool to get recognized on a level beyond the people who [already] love me and champion me. But, you know, I go to Hit’s studio and them [Grammy’s] look nice.

Hit: Hell yeah. But yeah, that s—t would hit different for me. There’s more to strive for, we’re gonna get there. It’s all stepping stones.

You both have had this legendary career. What comes to mind now when I say the word “legacy?”

Hit: I’m still making my legacy bro. I ain’t got all the way I need to be yet. I’m just trying to be great.

Alc: I don’t really have an end goal. I wanna just keep going progressively, and die. You know what I’m saying? I don’t wanna flatten, I don’t wanna go down. You gotta stay healthy, aging is a real thing, but we’re just getting better. I don’t want this to end! I’m tryna play ball until they kick us out of the gym.

Hit: S—t, I’m tryna have my own muthaf—kin’ gym!